Posts by Good JW

8

My bucket list letter to my sons, 41 years after leaving WT

by FatFreek 2005 in

several months ago i finally sent them a letter.

they are from the group of die-hards that continue to shun their father.

the following is a paste of part of the first page.

Good JW

I really hope it didn't sound like I was just dumping all over your efforts there FF2005, or patronizing

Your letter touched a few particular notes. Speaking from personal experience (on the receiving end of this kind of thing)...in my dad's dying letter to me he expressed some of the same old school traits.

First a bit of background - we are both engineers/scientific by nature. In his life he was afraid of looking weak/being vulnerable, showing much emotion (he had to protect his pride, stiff upper lip etc)...but most of all, he was always consumed in some form of activity (from work 24/7 to hobbies) to the point where it seemed us kids didn't matter that much. Eventually he got so ill that the life was sucked out of him (couldn't show interest in anything around him). I know in my mind that he did care, but just didn't feel it as a kid. I don't moan about this or use it as an excuse today (e.g. "woe is me" LOL), but it is noted in my head. Bottom line, I really didn't care about my fathers "wise counsel", as a kid I just wanted his genuine attention.

Anyway, enough of the sob story ....fast forward to my dad's dying letter - in it he wrote some courtesy notes about being proud of me, but the resounding parts were where he pleaded with me to "come back to Jehovah", and how he wished I "used my talents to their fullest capacity". The take home notes I got from this letter was that I was doing something wrong and he wasn't really proud of who i am (what my life choices were, what I decided to believe in etc). Imagine getting that as the last communication from your father. I don't want that for you, or your kids! (or anyone else for that matter, not when it can be helped).

The over-riding principles are the same no matter which side of the fence you're on. For a JW to receive what could be the last communication from their father telling them that their life choices weren't approved of = the same thing as above for me. It's dejecting and too close to home to just ignore. No matter whether you believe their religion to be a pile of garbage, it's still attacking their personal choice (albeit coerced via cultic tactics).

A more ideal father-son letter would include:

1) Forgetting pride & guidance. Just be human. As funny as this may seem, be a friend more than a father.

2) Be personal, specific to them. Be interested in their life/character.

3) Reminisce about the short time you spent with them as kids. Tell amusing stories they may not remember (be specific again to each one).

Steer away from trying to explain yourself (or over-emphasizing the "why's"), it often just brings attention to it in a bad way.

Really hope this helps!

11

Regional JW "Culture" - Did you experience any differences that surprised you?

by Diogenesister in

so this particular comment on another topic got me thinking about "regional" jw cultures.

things that were acceptable in one area you lived in, that were absolutely verboten in the jw hall/circuit you perhaps grew up in etc.

never met jws that cared if people played chess, and i knew a number of people who did play chess.

Good JW

UK:

Sleep with a boy from school = You're a horrible human being, disgusting tart, sit at the back of the hall and hang your head in shame, maybe a year or two later you can be re-instated.

Spain:

Guy gets his sister-in-law pregnant = 6 months later he's reinstated getting high fives and hand shakes.

LOL

8

My bucket list letter to my sons, 41 years after leaving WT

by FatFreek 2005 in

several months ago i finally sent them a letter.

they are from the group of die-hards that continue to shun their father.

the following is a paste of part of the first page.

Good JW

Hi Len, thanks for sharing your story so far. I too read the whole document.

First of all I'll start by saying I don't think you deserved that thumbs down on the OP - it takes courage to divulge personal parts of your life no matter how much others may disagree. So you get props from me for that.

I hope you don't mind a bit of frankness from myself though? It's easier for me since I've never met you, and I'm looking at something with fresh eyes. Hopefully this isn't received as something downright rude...

I would not have gone into the exact reasoning's as to why you left the WT org, especially as this just comes across as bashing their faith (or "whining") - hence the reason for the quick scan by one son. The minute they reached the "negative" (to them) parts, they would have switched off. It's only natural. It's enough to say you have your differences, and have come to your own conclusions.

What a child is most looking for in a father is simply recognition, for them to perceive that the father is interested in THEM (not a concept, not a subject, not a thing, not a religion, not intellectual debate, not excuses, but **themselves**). A letter like this should be personal, talking about feelings etc as apposed to "facts". You, being an engineer would likely see things in an extremely rational/objective manner. It's a blessing and a curse. So to you, explaining the exact ins and outs of why (i.e. your problem solving nature) seems like the most logical thing to do. Unfortunately the average person does not think like that! Especially not children towards the parents. Emotions are higher on the scale than black and white thought. A parent doesn't have to be perfect, they can make up for a heap of shortcomings just by coming across as exclusively interested in the child (despite any differences in personality/values/belief). The 1 to 1 attention comes first, "things" (all the baggage) etc are secondary.

This letter began well but went wrong when it veered off on a tirade about the WT and very little about your simple desire for a relationship (which at the end of the day we all want, when you strip away the religion etc). You've had 3+ decades away from your children with zero contact, then out of the blue they receive a letter from their father with hardly any substance in it other than what appears to be (to a JW) cut and paste "apostate material"! No offence but this is exactly how a JW thinks. Oh the irony. We leave WT often to just rehash the same inappropriate social skills, just in another ex JW way. So, say for example a JW funeral is all geared towards making more converts (or getting strays to come back) instead of talking about the **person** (something we ex JWs cringe at), an ex JW too can fall into the trap of only ever talking about the woes of the JW religion instead of just showing an interest in the **person**.

Sadly we ex JWs can carry the same retarded baggage that holds JWs back (i.e. being trapped in their own mind), not realizing that we're often the instigators of our own pain. A simple analysis of cause and effect shows that to speak negatively of a person's cherished beliefs will push them away, no matter how "honest" and "steadfast" we believe we must be. We then bemoan that "this terrible cult has taken our family away", entirely neglecting to put ourselves in the same shoes we once wore.

This probably sounds harsh, but hopefully it's helpful in some way when talking about ex JW to JW communications.

25

What is the biggest problem with the JWS religion or the Watchtower Corporation from a sociological and theological perspective ?

by Finkelstein in

many have spent years associated with jws religion and having eventually left it for numerous reasons but if you were to directly pinpoint a source of the problem with this religious organization what would it be ?.

in my personal viewpoint it would have be the core operation of literature proliferation and other products associated with the wts.

corporation.. once you think about it everything is focused around the operation of the wts publishing house, its distribution and circulation of its published goods.

Good JW

"I've got to read more of your comments from now on and encourage others as well"

Well Finkelstein, when my business completely flops hopefully my other plan will be a success...perhaps you can help me with my clientele?

It's gonna be a cult

12

My Dad's Funeral

by Disassociated Lady 2 in

i had not seen my dad for 15 years because i had left the borg.

(i had been out 26 years but there was a few years when the jws permitted contact with outsiders and then changed their minds again).

they made contact with me again just before he was diagnosed with cancer.

Good JW

Sorry for your loss! It's one of the hardest things, not only with losing your dad, but having to submerge yourself in the JW environment again. When my dad died I too had to go back to the kingdom hall etc, it's such a mixture of feelings. Emotions are heightened so it's easy to become sensitive about things which may not have troubled you much before. It definitely gets better! I fell out with my close JW sister and her husband around that time but things are pretty amicable now.

I've now learned to accept the quirks of the JWs, it doesn't bother me anymore (it's actually amusing sometimes). Doesn't matter if the same courtesy isn't reciprocated, I understand the situation and that gives me peace. Have learned to build my self worth in other ways (not validation through acknowledgment of other people or feeling accepted within a certain class). It's good to know why there's been such a big learning curve when leaving (e.g. social awkwardness, detachment, difficulty trusting people etc). In a sense, since I know how much adapting that's had to be done, it makes me realise many of my former associates are still "in that (deluded) place" so don't hold much against them (pity more than anything else). You do get the few narcissistic types, or power hungry ones, but in the main I find they're just trying to clutch onto some sort of hope (even though IMO the doctrines are often the main cause of fear etc).

Going cold turkey (no JW contact at all, either through people or media/online forums) is usually a great plan - focus on your own life (building lasting friendships etc) and don't expect much, if anything at all, from your former JW friends. That's not to sound negative or bashful towards all JWs, just a bit of realism, especially if you're feeling extra delicate :)

25

What is the biggest problem with the JWS religion or the Watchtower Corporation from a sociological and theological perspective ?

by Finkelstein in

many have spent years associated with jws religion and having eventually left it for numerous reasons but if you were to directly pinpoint a source of the problem with this religious organization what would it be ?.

in my personal viewpoint it would have be the core operation of literature proliferation and other products associated with the wts.

corporation.. once you think about it everything is focused around the operation of the wts publishing house, its distribution and circulation of its published goods.

Good JW

Thanks Finkelstein.

When bad things happen in the world people want answers, and someone coming along with direction (and showing a keen interest in them) is like a breath of fresh air for many, especially the vulnerable. Any audience these self appointed gurus gain leads to feeding the ego, and ultimately deluding them into feeling special/elite. This feeling keeps them driven so much that losing control over the "disciples" becomes a threat to their fake identity, hence the propaganda (either self believed or outright lies) to keep people in line.

"Don't go elsewhere, you need me".

They jealously and arrogantly guard what they see as their "property". Mix in some truths to sound plausible, pepper in some nice things, reason in circles, spin/ignore the negatives, keep making more followers...rinse and repeat. Pack it neat and tidy, label the box "The Truth" to make it easier to sell.

----------

On the one hand claiming to have exclusive rights to "The Truth" sounds crazy and arrogant to most reasonable people (and what puts them off). However, on the other hand it's actually a very good sales ploy. Can you imagine trying to advertise something as having mediocre results?

"Come and try this new product, it may work, or it may not, it's pretty much the same as all the rest out there!"

Would you buy that? Hardly. Come at someone with something "original" and "authoritative" (THE Truth...this is almost Divine, not just bible commentary) and suddenly you have someone's attention (or at least the person who's more open to exploitation).

25

What is the biggest problem with the JWS religion or the Watchtower Corporation from a sociological and theological perspective ?

by Finkelstein in

many have spent years associated with jws religion and having eventually left it for numerous reasons but if you were to directly pinpoint a source of the problem with this religious organization what would it be ?.

in my personal viewpoint it would have be the core operation of literature proliferation and other products associated with the wts.

corporation.. once you think about it everything is focused around the operation of the wts publishing house, its distribution and circulation of its published goods.

Good JW

What's wrong with the JW religion...(as brief as this can be!)

Sociologically:

Historically humanity has gone through different stages of development. To grossly oversimplify this and keep it relevant to the JW, there is the basic group phase whereby individuals realise that working together ensures better survival and quality of life. It starts from the family and extends out towards tribes etc. This developed into hierarchy structures etc with their laws and codes for self preservation as a society.

The next (overlapping) phase that we're still going through (as evidenced by war/racism) is one of accepting people from the "outside groups". Accepting people of different nationalities, races, sex etc. Whether you believe in evolution or not, accepting this progression of civilization is vital for long term survival, and those who don't submit to the progressive flow will not bode well either individually or as a whole.

How does this tie in with the JWs? This religion is stuck in the old mindset of "us vs them" (the ancient priestly hierarchical rule of nationalism). No matter which way you dress this up (e.g. the rich vs poor, virtuous vs savage) it's the same crap that won't last...it'll die out with each subsequent generation, much like sexism has done over the decades.

There's only so long you can keep a person back; trying to delude people into a superiority complex (ultimately "us vs them") only works so long. People start to small the BS and wake up. Ask many ex JWs about this and it'll be high on the list of things that made them uncomfortable as a JW (made to feel as if everyone else was "unclean" except themselves).

Theologically:

Actually this should be called "spiritually" because that's where the real problem lies (theology changes throughout history, but spirituality remains pretty constant). Watchtower is a pretty cold corporation that's devoid of spirit. By spirit I mean a person's better inward drive towards what they currently believe is true/pure/good. The WT takes this freedom away from the adherent, and that's a huge thing - i.e. your free will (the main thing that makes humans "special"). Spoon feeding anyone into a state of drifting through life (dependency) is the worst thing you can do to them, and that's what WT does. Many can't quite pinpoint this error in the WT but they know it just doesn't sit right with them deep down, and many leave as a result.

---------------------

In a nutshell:

1) Backwards and unethical philosophy to social structure - "us vs them"

2) Enslavement of a persons spirit (whatever you define that to be) - "we'll tell you exactly how to feel/think"

9

An update for the completionists

by jaydee in

for all of you who have closely followed my posts over the years....(ok, so that's none, i get it).

some time ago in a galaxy far far away.... i posted some aus government files.. one of which contained an article...'what is a jehovah's witness - - by milton g henschel.

(see here).. https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/161119/more-aus-watchtower-pdf-files.

Good JW

Not the best place...

That's not what he was thinking

31

The hypocrisy of today's Watchtower

by UnshackleTheChains in

i don't really need to explain anything really.

all i can say is that i was gob smacked at the sheer audaciousness of the entire study article.

i'm still speechless.

Good JW

UnshackleTheChains:

That paragraph you quoted reminded me of my conversations with die hard JWs. I have tried reasoning with the most stubborn of JWs (no heated name calling or anything silly), and in some cases, made me wonder if they were "on the spectrum". One particular JW was so absurd in his ability to (cold-heartedly) reason through WT goggles it just makes you shake your head in disbelief.

The recurring theme being that extreme indoctrination = love. Anything beyond that is "unloving". They literally redefine words, as per cult practice. There was no sense of basic human compassion/empathy unless they were a "repentant JW" (read: submitted to current WT counsel).

WT says that the Pharisees were cruel, and this translated = "they did not teach what the we teach about God (trinity, hellfire, soul, last days etc).". Human ethics/morality doesn't come into the equation because in a cult doctrine is more important than the person (although they rarely see it). The so called greater good = WT propaganda.

Simple examples of WT "morality":

A bad person - someone who tells you to take some time off meetings and not worry about underlining your WT

A good person - someone who tries to "support" you on field service by making you feel guilty over not going out.

31

The hypocrisy of today's Watchtower

by UnshackleTheChains in

i don't really need to explain anything really.

all i can say is that i was gob smacked at the sheer audaciousness of the entire study article.

i'm still speechless.

Good JW

(Watchtower logic)

Mercy:

"Hi Marry I've been snooping about on your computer and noticed these racy emails between a worldly guy and yourself. I'm not going to be a jerk so I'll give you 10 days to go to the elders and confess all the nitty gritty details of your relationship".